iso14000-digest Monday, September 22 1997 Volume 02 : Number 011
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:32:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A Chowdhury (PCRI)"
Subject: EMS for TPS
Dear Colleagues,
I am looking for references to Case Studies on Environemntal Management
Systems in Coal fired Thermal Power Stations. I would appreciate if
anyone could suggest the same to me.
Thanking you in advance.
Avijit Chowdhury
Work:
Avijit Chowdhury | Phone: +91-133-427350, Extn.5324
Dy. Manager, PCRI | Telex: 05909-206 & 207
BHEL Hardwar - 249403 | Fax: +91-133-426254
INDIA | Email: hwr01!mscac@hth01.bhel.ernet.in
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:12:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: AJMCCUSKER@aol.com
Subject: Re: EMS for TPS-- expanded request for el gen facility ISO 14000 or other ems
In a message dated 97-09-08 05:43:20 EDT, Avijit Chowdhury wrote:
<< I am looking for references to Case Studies on Environemntal Management
Systems in Coal fired Thermal Power Stations. I would appreciate if
anyone could suggest the same to me. >>
I'd like to expand this inquiry to include oil, gas and nuclear powered
facilties. If there are several individuals who would like to work with me
to gather and summarize and present this information, I would be delighted to
coordinate the effort. The National Association of Environmental
Professionals, Utility Working Group will have a session or two at the NAEP
1998 Annual Conference in San Diego in June and it would be beneficial to
present this information as a basis for discussion on EMS and utilities.
Regards,
Andrew McCusker
Mackworth Environmental Management
3 Adams Street, Suite 316
South Portland, Maine 04106
207 767-0161 (fax -4306)
ajmccusker@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:07:07 +0200
From: Vieri Emiliani
Subject: Re: safey, quality and environment
Luis,
You wrote
Anyone knows a standard project based on ISO 9000 or ISO 14000 model,
concerning safety?
On 5th-6th of September '96 ISO organised an international workshop on OH&S systems standardisation in Geneva.
The main objectives were to compare the different standards developed by some countries and to evaluate the opportunity to create an ISO standard on OH&S. The results of this meeting were submitted to ISO Technical Management Board.
Well, this is what came up, in spite of what I consider are common expectations...
"The TMB decided that no further action should be taken at this time to initiate activity within ISO in the field of Occupational Health & Safety management system standards. (...)The TMB considered that a need for the development of such standards may ar
ise in the future, but does not exist at the present time."
You can find further details at http://www.iso.ch/presse/PRESSE11.html
By the other hand, there is actually an English standard named BS8800, based on ISO14000, which we currently use as reference for the implementation of OH&S management systems, supported by the massive rumour that EEC/391/89 introduced in our country.
I also think (personal opinion) that some rework should be done on ISO 9000 in order to transform its "general requirements on specific items" philosophy to a "specific requirements on general items" attitude, which I consider more coherent with ISO 14000
addresses and, by the way, more effective (what about ISO 9000 results in most companies?).
Any other opinion on this item?
Hope this can help.
Vieri Emiliani vieri@graham.it
- -------------------------------------
R&D Manager
GRAHAM S.r.l. info@graham.it
via trento, 49
I-43100 parma - italy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:58:00 +1000
From: Ric Morgan
Subject: Re: Safety in EMS
Australian Standards have published a Handbook HB97-1997 titled
"Integrating Quality and Environmental Management Systems" It is
available from Standards Australia, PO Box 1055, Strathfield, NSW 2135,
Australia. Ph: + 61 9746 4748, Fax: + 61 9746 3333.
It seems fairly useful to me.
- --
Ric Morgan
Noel Arnold & Associates Pty Ltd
2 Gale Street, MORTLAKE NSW 2137, AUSTRALIA
Ph: + 61 2 9743 1261 Fax: + 61 2 9743 1241
Noel Arnold & Associates Pty Ltd (http://www.ozemail.com.au/~naanet/)are
a privately owned Occupational Health, Safety and Environmental
Consultancy. But the information is Ric Morgan's and represents his
opinions.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:31:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: BOUNCE iso14000@quality.org: Non-member submission from ["Eric Eckl" ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see below the dotted line)
and to the list's posting address, OR as directed in the posting, but
definitely NOT to me.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
- Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
- List Moderator, "TQM in Manufacturing and Service Industries"
- Chairman, Electronic Media Committee & Database Chair
ASQ Section 0511 (Northern VA) Section Email: E-media@asq0511.org
- 1997-98 Chair-elect, Executive Board, ASQ Section 0511
- Senior Administrator, Internet Systems, Fed. Emergency Mgmt. Agency (FEMA)
- North Point Director, Reston Citizens' Association Board, 1997-98
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEW! Browse and Buy from our new Online Quality Bookstore!
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:07:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Eric Eckl"
Organization: Environmental Law Institute
To: envlawprofs@darkwing.uoregon.edu, iso14000@quality.org,
industrial-ecology@mailbase.ac.uk, QUEST@vm1.nodak.edu
Subject: Measuring EMS Performance
*This program is free and is open to the public*
Measuring Environmental Management System Performance:
Private and Public Sector Tools
When: Noon to 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, September 23, Doors open at 11:30
a.m. A light lunch will be served
Where: The Regal Biltmore Hotel, 506 South Grand Avenue, Los Angeles
RSVP: (202) 939-3858 or by Friday, September 19.
The first steps towards implementing an ISO 14001 or similar
environmental management system are the most difficult: Conducting an
internal assessment to identify and prioritize significant
environmental aspects and developing a comprehensive plan to begin to
measure progress. As more and more regulated industries begin to
implement EMSs, agencies and NGOs are searching for ways to measure
the potential results and explore the interaction between
environmental management systems and existing regulatory structures.
Please join Robert Faron (Putnam Hayes & Bartlett), Erik Meyers
(Environmental Law Institute), Dan Steinway (Kelley Drye and Warren),
Robert Stephens (California EPA), and Marcia Williams (Putnam Hayes &
Bartlett) as they discuss "Measuring Environmental Management System
Performance."
___________________________________
Eric Eckl
Assistant Director of Communications
Environmental Law Institute
1616 P Street, NW
Suite 200
Washington, DC 20036
(202) 939-3248
Fax: (202) 939-3868
eckl@eli.org
www.eli.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:22:09 +0400
From: Simone Goosen en Johan Verburg
Subject: Re: safety, quality and environment
At 12:42 PM 9/6/97 +0100, Luis Santos requested for thoughts on the merger
of ISO 9001, ISO 14001and Safety into a single management standard and asked
for safety standards based on the iso 9000 or iso 14000 model.
Regarding the wide variety of exitsting national safety regulations, safety
cultures etc. and negotiations in an international context, it is to my
opinion, not just the one ideal isolution to strive after the development of
an international integrated standard including safety. The separate
standards, however, should be made optimally compatible (they are in fact
already to a great extent), "more coherent" as Vieri Emiliani called it, so
as to enable users to pick elements from all and build their own tailor-made
system aimed at their own company specific benefits, with or without
certification to one or more of the ISO or other standards.
With regards to the development of standards for occupatinal safety and
health management, as far as I can see, the focal points seem to be in UK
and Australia. Linked to the Australian development are those of the APOSHO
(the Asian Pacific OSH Organisation) towards an ISO 14000 based standard for
OSH management. Related to the development of the non-certifiable Bristish
Standard 8800 (based among others on the structure and approach of ISO
14000), SGS Yarsley developed its own ISA 2000. ISA stands for
International Safety Auditors. The ISA 2000 does allow certification. It has
the same structure, clause numbering and approach as the ISO 9000 and also
indicates the links with ISO 14000.
Probably there are even more developments than abovementioned, also based on
other models than the famous ISOs. Probably there are also even more
opinions. Keep us informed, Luis, on what you find out.
Johan Verburg
Environmental Management Advisor
*************************************
Simone Goosen & Johan Verburg
Mauritius
sgjv@intnet.mu
*************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:14:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jlsprof@aol.com
Subject: Activity Based Accounting for Environmental Management
I have a question. Does anyone on the list use, or know of anyone who uses,
activity-based accounting methods and activity-based management methods for
tracking costs of their environmental management systems and costs of
environmental compliance? I'm looking for companies with experience in this
area that are interested in sharing their experiences with others.
Jim Smith
jlsprof@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:01:24 EST
From: "Richard Dooley"
Subject: Re: Activity Based Accounting for Environmental Management
Jim Smith wrote:
I have a question. Does anyone on the list use, or know of anyone who
uses, activity-based accounting methods and activity-based management
methods for tracking costs of their environmental management systems
and costs of environmental compliance? I'm looking for companies with
experience in this area that are interested in sharing their
experiences with others.
==========================================
Jim,
A colleague of mine recently asked for information re: root cause
analysis professionals on the P2Tech listserver. My thought is that
someone conducting a root cause analysis can sometimes use ABC
methods to incorporate costs into the final report. The following is
a synopsis the information she gathered. I hope this helps and is not
too far off-base. Good luck!
Richard Dooley
==========================================
Robert B. Pojasek, Ph.D.
Cambridge Environmental Inc.
58 Charles St.
Cambridge, MA 02141
225-0812
225-0813 (fax)
http://www.CambridgeEnvironmental.com
rpojasek@sprynet.com
Dr. Pojasek stated the following in his e-mail to me: I have been
teaching root cause analysis as the principal problem solving tool in
P2 assessments for the past 11 years. There is an article on root
cause analysis in POLLUTION PREVENTION REVIEW (John Wiley & Sons)
Summer, 1996, p. 100-105. for those of you who have attended on of
my training sessions, you know that the cause and effect diagram is
the most widely used problem solving tool in the entire world. Root
cause analysis is a key component of the systems Approach to
Pollution Prevention as I have been using it. While root cause
analysis is not common to most environmental problems, it is widely
used in quality management and manufacturing efficiency studies.
- -----------------------------------------------
William W. Snell, VP, COO
Environmental Resource Center
Center Pointe Drive
Cary, NC 27513-5706
wsnell@ercweb.com
469-1585, ext. 227
469-4137 (fax)
Mr. Snell stated the following in his e-mail to me: Environmental
Resource Center offers an outstanding tool for conducting root cause
analysis called REASON. Delivered on CD-ROM, REASON is a
Windows-based expert system that guides you through the problem
solving process. It is designed to identify all root causes,
complete an investigation and analysis process quickly, and document
the work so that a decision can be made. As a rule-based system,
REASON does not require you to select form a list of pre-written
causes. Instead, REASON uses a set of logic rules to guide the
process. You do not have to know the rules, the expert system leads
you through each step and then helps you verify the accuracy and
completeness of your work. This software breaks down a problem into
its essential parts, orders those parts into a logical model that can
be measured, and then uses the results to help make informed
decisions. Although most commonly used for accident investigation,
REASON can be used on any business or operational problem. You can
order a demo of this software by contacting Ms. Kim Garde at
800-537-2372 (ext. 240).
- -------------------------------------------------
Roberta Burish, President
Total Quality Applications
Bradenton, FL
(941) 746-2133
According to Ms. Burish, her company is the preferred provider of
root cause analysis for the Tennessee Valley Authority and have
effected a direct savings of $80 M+ per year for the TVA. Many of
TQA's teams have won Hammer Awards. TQA also offers "train the
trainer" courses and one day seminars.
- ----------------------------------------------------
Gerard Bruno, President
Gerard Bruno Associates
37 Oakdale Road
Wilmington, MA 01887
(508) 657-7830
Mr. Bruno stated that his expertise is in process improvement. He
has done work for Lucent Technologies in this area and has written a
book entitled "The Process Analysis Workbook For Government: How to
achieve more with less."
- -----------------------------------------------------
John David Curry, President
Curry and Associates
104 S. Palisades Drive
Signal Mountain, TN 37377
(423)886-0037
Work experience: Sixteen years of commerical power experience with
technical and management responsibilities and participation in total
quality management programs. Experience in entire project life cycle
activities including marketing, defineing project scope, preparing
cost estimates and managing the work through to completion.
__________________________
Richard Dooley
Environmental Management Specialist
11251 Roger Bacon Dr.; M/S 4-3; Rm. #4009
SAIC - Pollution Prevention Division Reston, VA 20190
e-mail: rdooley@lan828.ehsg.saic.com
Ph: 703-318-4608 Fax: 703-736-0826
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:49:04 -0400
From: Sidney Vianna
Subject: Re: Integrating ISO9k, Occ Health & Safety, & ISO14001/Vianna
quoted from L.H. Garlinghouse:
". . .The reasoning was that if, for example, you have one monolithic
system, when the ISO 9k guy/gal comes in to audit you, s/he is going to be
able to look at every thing you have decided is part of your Quality
system, and thus you have 2X or 3X the chances of a finding per audit
(depending if you have 2 or 3 systems integrated). . . ."
As a third-party auditor, I would have to disagree with such concern. A
good auditor has to remain within the scope of the audit. Actually this is
a requirement of ISO 10011. So, if I am auditing a system to verify system
compliance against the requirements of ISO 9001, I have to refrain from
going into areas that do not pertain to the requirements of such standard.
For example, if I am performing a quality system audit, I would have no
business auditing waste management (which, by definition in ISO 9001, par.
3.1 - by-product - clearly falls outside the scope of this standard).
Similarly, I should not get involved with fire-extinguishers, emergency
escapes, etc . . . I reckon that there would be some gray zones, where it
is not clear to determine if an issue is purely a safety problem vs a
quality problem, but for the most part of it, I believe that experienced
quality, safety and environmental auditors realize very well their
boundaries during an audit.
Please understand that it does not mean that I do not care about safety and
environmental issues. I just have to stick to the plan.During the audit, if
I happen to see what I consider to be an unsafe situation, or an
environmental violation, I would certainly bring this to the attention of
the management of the company that I am auditing, but these have no ground
to be a non-compliance to the ISO 9001 requirements.
An "all-encompassing procedure" (meaning a procedure that describes a
process, from a quality, safety and environmental perspectives) should help
a company in controlling the operation. Thus, I for one, encourage such
approach. Why have three sets of disconnected manuals (Q,S & E) if one does
it much better. Why train an operator 3 different times, for safety,
quality and environmental aspects if what you really want to control is the
process?
Best regards,
Sidney Vianna
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:01:05 -0400
From: "Neil G. Vander Linden"
Subject: Re: Integrating ISO9k, Occ Health & Safety, & ISO14001/Vianna -Reply
I couldn't agree more with your reasoning with regard to auditors sticking
to the scope of the standard against which they are auditing. This is
already evident from my experience with external auditors who have
audited our operations against ISO 9002. Most of the departments within
our organization have rather large books of procedures under document
control. In eleven outside audits over the past six years I don't ever recall
an auditor seriously auditing any procedure that wasn't closely related to
one of the requirements of the standard. In fact auditing time is so dear
they only have time for the "must" items and almost always audit the
same procedures in the same areas. Another way to avoid potential
problems is to list up front those items which are critical to quality,
safety, health, and the environment. Auditors will invariably limit
themselves to those things which you consider to be critical to the area
they are auditing.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:03:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: BOUNCE iso14000@quality.org: Non-member submission from [martin charter <101336.3560@compuserve.com>] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see below the dotted line)
and to the list's posting address, OR as directed in the posting, but
definitely NOT to me.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
- Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
- List Moderator, "TQM in Manufacturing and Service Industries"
- Chairman, Electronic Media Committee & Database Chair
ASQ Section 0511 (Northern VA) Section Email: E-media@asq0511.org
- 1997-98 Chair-elect, Executive Board, ASQ Section 0511
- Senior Administrator, Internet Systems, Fed. Emergency Mgmt. Agency (FEMA)
- North Point Director, Reston Citizens' Association Board, 1997-98
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEW! Browse and Buy from our new Online Quality Bookstore!
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:04:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: martin charter <101336.3560@compuserve.com>
Subject: managing eco-design #2
Managing eco-design: international conference
31st October 1997, London, UK
Practical approaches to managing the complex issues surrounding
the incorporation of environmental considerations into product
development and design.
Papers to be presented by IBM, Eastman Kodak, Philips, Nortel,
Electrolux, Lucent Technologies, Oestfold Research Foundation,
Tom Clark & Associates
Managing eco-design: a training solution
A comprehensive package that incorporates a 200 page manual, cd-
rom and diskettes (eco-design websites and bibliographic
references)...incorporating 11 corporate case histories
Includes expert contributions on:
* 'Business and environment' issues
* Managing the eco-design process
* Eco-design tools
* Establishing eco-design training and communication programmes
* Case studies
* Information sources
For more information re-email or fax your name and postal address
to +44 1252 732274
Martin Charter, Joint Coordinator, The Centre for Sustainable
Design
email: cfsd@surrart.ac.uk
internet: http://www.cfsd.org.uk
^Z
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:42:03 +0100
From: "GlobalStand"
Subject: Re: Integrating ISO9k, Occ Health & Safety, & ISO14001/Vianna
I strongly agree with Sidney. While auditing for compliance with ISO
14001, it was a challenge to keep the two experienced compliance auditors
"out of the compliance audit box" and focused on the task ahead (which is
to evaluate if the EMS is in place and is effectively implemented). The
schedule does not allow for sidetracking issues. The customer is supposed
to disclose the "regs" before we start auditing. If there is a clear lack
of compliance it could get sticky. We would have to bring it up but it
would be ultimately the customer's responsibility to resolve it. Luckily
we have always found the group performing compliance with the "regs" very
much in control of compliance. Unfortunatelly, their vision of EMS
requirements was fuzzy... But we helped them figure it out, with the
results of our evaluation. Integrating systems may be good, or bad. The
point is: there is so much to do just verifying compliance with the
standard - other issues must be addressed separately (unless there is
blantant negligence!)
Again - focus, focus, stick with the standard-- that is the challenge.
Eliana (Ellie) Borges, QSLA, RAB# QO 4418
GlobalStand Corporation
Int'l Systems Implementation Experts
(English/Spanish/Portuguese)
http://www.GlobalStand.com
"Profit is the result and reward of
doing things right! And doing the right
things! Therein lies the balance."
(Randy Berger, Comdial Corporation)
- ----------
> From: Sidney Vianna
> To: ISO Standards Discussion
> Cc: ISO14000 Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Integrating ISO9k, Occ Health & Safety, & ISO14001/Vianna
> Date: Thursday, September 11, 1997 11:49 PM
>
> quoted from L.H. Garlinghouse:
>
> ". . .The reasoning was that if, for example, you have one monolithic
> system, when the ISO 9k guy/gal comes in to audit you, s/he is going to
be
> able to look at every thing you have decided is part of your Quality
> system, and thus you have 2X or 3X the chances of a finding per audit
> (depending if you have 2 or 3 systems integrated). . . ."
>
> As a third-party auditor, I would have to disagree with such concern. A
> good auditor has to remain within the scope of the audit. Actually this
is
> a requirement of ISO 10011. So, if I am auditing a system to verify
system
> compliance against the requirements of ISO 9001, I have to refrain from
> going into areas that do not pertain to the requirements of such
standard.
> For example, if I am performing a quality system audit, I would have no
> business auditing waste management (which, by definition in ISO 9001,
par.
> 3.1 - by-product - clearly falls outside the scope of this standard).
> Similarly, I should not get involved with fire-extinguishers, emergency
> escapes, etc . . . I reckon that there would be some gray zones, where it
> is not clear to determine if an issue is purely a safety problem vs a
> quality problem, but for the most part of it, I believe that experienced
> quality, safety and environmental auditors realize very well their
> boundaries during an audit.
>
> Please understand that it does not mean that I do not care about safety
and
> environmental issues. I just have to stick to the plan.During the audit,
if
> I happen to see what I consider to be an unsafe situation, or an
> environmental violation, I would certainly bring this to the attention of
> the management of the company that I am auditing, but these have no
ground
> to be a non-compliance to the ISO 9001 requirements.
>
> An "all-encompassing procedure" (meaning a procedure that describes a
> process, from a quality, safety and environmental perspectives) should
help
> a company in controlling the operation. Thus, I for one, encourage such
> approach. Why have three sets of disconnected manuals (Q,S & E) if one
does
> it much better. Why train an operator 3 different times, for safety,
> quality and environmental aspects if what you really want to control is
the
> process?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Sidney Vianna
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:40:23 PDT
From: "uri schlesinger"
Subject: Case-Study/Implementation of ISO 14000 at the Organic Arena
Dear Members
I am looking for a sample of implementation of ISO 14000 at
"Organic" arena(Organic Farming,Organic Food Industry/Retailers
Organic Associations etc.).
Thanking you ,in advance , for your support
Uri Schlesinger
Fax: +972 3 6745497
E-Mail: urschl@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:12:50 -0400
From: Rona Fried
Subject: Sustainable Business Opportunities
As part of our effort to encourage the growth of sustainable business, we
have started a new area on the Sustainable Business Network, "Sustainable
Business Opportunities."
Its purpose is to help green businesses find investors, partners,
distributors, licensees, and respond to RFPs.
A very interesting mix of ventures are up on the site in its first month
including: GreenKeepers Phone Co.; Hydrogen Powered Vehicle Project; Costa
Rica Ecotourism Development; Plastic Recycling Venture; Hawaii Eco-Estates;
Shenoa Retreat Center; and Tank Sludge Remediation.
To make this area successful, I'm asking for your help to network this
opportunity. Please feel free to send me postings as to your businesses
needs, and please let me know of RFPs which would be of interest to the
sustainable business community.
And I hope you'll look through the listings - hopefully connections will be
made!
Thanks, and best to all of you,
Rona Fried, Ph.D.
Executive Editor, Sustainable Business Network Journal
http://www.envirolink.org/sbn
516-423-3277
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:27:41 -0700
From: "Bert P. Krages"
Subject: Master's Program in Environmental Management
For those of you who may be interested, Northwestern University offers a
master's degree program in environmental management. This program is
offered through the civil engineering department and includes courses in
engineering management and environmental engineering. More information can
be found at the following website: .
Bert P. Krages II
Environmental Law and Mediation
900 S.W. Fifth Avenue, Suite 1900
Portland, Oregon 97204
Law:
Mediation:
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 13:16:57
From: iso_at_CANDIAC@komint.com
Subject: Paper vs. Electricity
I am curious as to whether anyone has looked at the costs, advantages,
or tradeoffs to switching from paper hand towels, to the electric hot
air hand dryers found in washrooms.
Although we would be switching from one natural resource to another
(paper vs. hydro), we would be decreasing our solid waste out put and
related labor for the removal.
Thank you,
Chris.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:08:02 -0000
From: "jlsprof-1"
Subject: Re: Paper vs. Electricity
I'm not sure I would agree that replacing paper towels with hot air dryers
eliminates solid waste. Suppose the electricity supplying the air dryer is
coming from a nuclear power plant. Then you're hastening the creation of
nuclear wastes. What if the electricity is coming from a coal-fired plant.
Then you're creating fly ash, the use of which is usually more expensive
than the discarding of it.
I don't know the full merits of the hot air dryer over the paper towels.
And I doubt that anyone can definitively say that one is better than the
other. This points up a problem that I've raised on this list before. And
that is, for a large number of things, we just can't know whether or not
one course of action is better for the environment. This was pointed out
recently in our area when a local group sponsored several people to go
through a grocery store and buy certain items based on what they perceived
to be better for the environment. For any given item, each of the people
picked out something differant, and each for a different reason. One
person picked a certain brand because it used less packaging, another
person picked a different brand of the same product because it didn't
contain certain chemicals, another person picked a different brand of the
same product because of the manufacturing process used. Each person was
being environmentally-conscious in their decision-making, but none could
say that they were more correct in their decision than was the next person.
None of this is meant to say we shouldn't try. Obviously, we need to. But
we need to keep some reason about the whole thing. Hair dryers versus
paper towels, Jiffy Peanut Butter versus Peter Pan Peanut Butter, Lipton
tea versus herbal tea---they're all a wash. Let's save our energies for
the real problems that we can do something about.
Jim Smith
jlsprof-1@erols.com
- ----------
> From: iso_at_CANDIAC@komint.com
> To: iso14000@quality.org
> Subject: Paper vs. Electricity
> Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 1:16 PM
>
>
> I am curious as to whether anyone has looked at the costs,
advantages,
> or tradeoffs to switching from paper hand towels, to the electric
hot
> air hand dryers found in washrooms.
>
> Although we would be switching from one natural resource to another
> (paper vs. hydro), we would be decreasing our solid waste out put
and
> related labor for the removal.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Chris.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:10:20 -0000
From: "jlsprof-1"
Subject: Fw: Paper vs. Electricity
I made the following response to a posting on our list by Chris at CANDIAC:
- ----------
> From: jlsprof-1
> To: iso_at_CANDIAC@komint.com; iso14000@quality.org
> Subject: Re: Paper vs. Electricity
> Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 9:08 PM
>
> I'm not sure I would agree that replacing paper towels with hot air
dryers
> eliminates solid waste. Suppose the electricity supplying the air dryer
is
> coming from a nuclear power plant. Then you're hastening the creation of
> nuclear wastes. What if the electricity is coming from a coal-fired
plant.
> Then you're creating fly ash, the use of which is usually more expensive
> than the discarding of it.
> I don't know the full merits of the hot air dryer over the paper towels.
> And I doubt that anyone can definitively say that one is better than the
> other. This points up a problem that I've raised on this list before.
And
> that is, for a large number of things, we just can't know whether or not
> one course of action is better for the environment. This was pointed out
> recently in our area when a local group sponsored several people to go
> through a grocery store and buy certain items based on what they
perceived
> to be better for the environment. For any given item, each of the people
> picked out something differant, and each for a different reason. One
> person picked a certain brand because it used less packaging, another
> person picked a different brand of the same product because it didn't
> contain certain chemicals, another person picked a different brand of the
> same product because of the manufacturing process used. Each person was
> being environmentally-conscious in their decision-making, but none could
> say that they were more correct in their decision than was the next
person.
> None of this is meant to say we shouldn't try. Obviously, we need to.
But
> we need to keep some reason about the whole thing. Hair dryers versus
> paper towels, Jiffy Peanut Butter versus Peter Pan Peanut Butter, Lipton
> tea versus herbal tea---they're all a wash. Let's save our energies for
> the real problems that we can do something about.
> Jim Smith
> jlsprof-1@erols.com
>
> ----------
> > From: iso_at_CANDIAC@komint.com
> > To: iso14000@quality.org
> > Subject: Paper vs. Electricity
> > Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 1:16 PM
> >
> >
> > I am curious as to whether anyone has looked at the costs,
> advantages,
> > or tradeoffs to switching from paper hand towels, to the electric
> hot
> > air hand dryers found in washrooms.
> >
> > Although we would be switching from one natural resource to
another
> > (paper vs. hydro), we would be decreasing our solid waste out put
> and
> > related labor for the removal.
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> > Chris.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:03:06 +0100
From: Duncan Philips
Subject: Duluth, MN
I'd like to find out whether there are any firms certified to ISO 14001
in the Duluth, MN area. Is there a database on the web that will
provide me with this information? Or maybe someone else can help?
Cheers,
Duncan
- --
Duncan Philips
e-mail to: Duncan@genesis2.demon.co.uk
http://www.genesis2.demon.co.uk/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:34:56 -0400
From: Robert Sroufe
Subject: ISO Certified Companies? How Many? Where are they?
Greetings everyone,
I believe there are many other people with the same questions I have:
I would like to obtain information about the number of companies who are
certified, or who are seeking ISO 14000 certification. Unlike Duncan
Philips, I would like to find this data for much larger geographic areas.
Is there a source for this type of information on the web? If not, who do
I have to contact?
Thank you all in advance for your time and effort toward this matter,
===================================================
Robert Sroufe
N301 North Business Complex
Department of Marketing and Supply Chain Management
The Eli Broad Graduate School of Management
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1112
email:sroufero@pilot.msu.edu
Tel.: (517) 353-6381
Fax: (517) 432-1112
===================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:07:11 +0000
From: Nick Roadnight
Subject: Call for Papers
A call for papers will shortly be issued for the fully refereed 1998
ELITE conference.
The conference will on the 25th and 26th of November 1998, in Plymouth
England.
When you receive it, please read it carefully and let us know whether:
i you would like to submit a paper,
ii would like to attend as a delegate,
iii have passed it onto a colleague.
May I take this opportunity to thank you now, and I look forward to the
possibility of seeing you at next year.
Watch this space.
Regards,
Nick Roadnight
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:11:51 +0100
From: adc@aber.ac.uk (Adrian Carter)
Subject: MSc Environmental Auditing
Readers of this list may be interested to visit the web site for the EIA
Unit, based in Aberystwyth in the UK, which contains links to other ISO14000
web sites and also acts to promote software that the unit is currently
developing.
The EIA Unit in Aberystwyth, UK offers a well established (and the only EARA
accredited) distance learning MSc course in environmental auditing. Students
participate from all over the world and many of the regular intake are
experienced practitioners in the field. Interested applicants should contact
David Russell at the address below. Course information is given on the web site:
http://www.aber.ac.uk/~eiawww/
********************************************************
Adrian Carter
EIA Unit, Institute of Biological Sciences,
University of Wales, Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, SY23 3DA
Tel: 01970 621828
Email: adc@aber.ac.uk
********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:11:51 +0100
From: adc@aber.ac.uk (Adrian Carter)
Subject: MSc Environmental Auditing
The EIA Unit ISO14001 page can be found at: http://www.aber.ac.uk/~adc/index.htm
********************************************************
Adrian Carter
EIA Unit, Institute of Biological Sciences,
University of Wales, Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, SY23 3DA
Tel: 01970 621828
Email: adc@aber.ac.uk
********************************************************
********************************************************
Adrian Carter
EIA Unit, Institute of Biological Sciences,
University of Wales, Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, SY23 3DA
Tel: 01970 621828
Email: adc@aber.ac.uk
********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:33:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: BOUNCE iso14000@quality.org: Non-member submission from [Rick Gehrke ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, OR as directed in
the posting, but definitely NOT to me.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
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=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:52:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rick Gehrke
To: Duncan Philips
CC: iso14000@quality.org
Subject: Re: Duluth, MN
Duncan Philips wrote:
> I'd like to find out whether there are any firms certified to ISO 14001
> in the Duluth, MN area. Is there a database on the web that will
> provide me with this information? Or maybe someone else can help?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Duncan
>
> --
> Duncan Philips
> e-mail to: Duncan@genesis2.demon.co.uk
> http://www.genesis2.demon.co.uk/index.html
Check out http://www.iso14000.net/ certified companies database.
- --
Rick Gehrke
ISO 14000 Program Manager
AWM
http://www.awm.net
------------------------------
End of iso14000-digest V2 #11
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