iso14000-digest Tuesday, May 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 033
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:44:43 -0400
From: HY BRAVERMAN
Subject: Re: priorities ISO14001: end of pipe or measures at the source
Michael: No argument. No EMS should be put on hold until an information
system is in place. However, it's more than "FEEDS AND SPEED", and how
much is going up the smoke stack and out the drain pipe. Now more than
ever, as the competitiveness gets sharper, the data along the "value
chain" become more important. JIT and "PULL" manufacturing gets more
attention, strategic data gets critical. All the players in the process
will need more information on time. Lag time is not an option anymore.
Anytime that an extra (+1) product can be produced, it gets added to the
bottom line, any waste, takes away from the bottom line. Companies who
deal in the global market, will not be able to afford to produce any
waste and still stay competitive to those who do not produce any.
Sorry about the run-on thought. But it's more than just environmental
data, its information nutritients that are needed to feed the body
enterprise.
Hy Braverman
BRAVERMAN STRATEGIES
EnviroInformatics Consulting
email: braveman@ziplink.net
>Michael Snider wrote:
>
> >>> HY BRAVERMAN on 05/05 7:44 AM wrote:
> Without a doubt ISO14001 and any EMS are valuable and need to be in
> place, however, before implementation, an enterprise wide information
> systems needs to be mapped out...
>
> I think the growth of both the environmental information system and the
EMS is often a result of varying pressures at various times. It seems
optimistic, at best, to think we can put EMS development on hold until
an enterprise-wide IS can be put in place. Besides, I'm under the
impression
that most data is generated/managed at the site/plant/facility level,
and that relatively small amounts of information are sent around the
enterprise. Does anybody else have any experiences/impressions they'
>
> Michael Snider
> e-mail: sniderm@wv.doe.gov
> Tel: 716-942-2024
> Fax: 716-942-2000
> West Valley Nuclear Services
> MS-AOC-16
> 10282 Rock Springs Road
> West Valley, NY 14171-0191
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:13:22 +0200
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Guus_Gabri=EBlse?="
Subject: Priorities ISO14001: pollution prevention
The standard does require that an organization makes a commitment to the
prevention of pollution. Application of end of pipe technology can not
always be considered as an act of pollution prevention. In most cases
"clean up technology" results in a tranfer of impurities from one
environmental compartment into another, thus creating a problem in that
other compartment.
Wastewater treatment systems do purify the water, but create "solid"
wastematerial that need to be disposed of.
In my opinion, the application of such a technique is therefore in
contradiction with the standard requirement of pollution prevention. A
certified or a would-be certified company could only then make use of such
technology when it can prove that measures at the source are not possible
within the financial abilities of that company.
Guus Gabriëlse
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:38:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: submission from [GINA SNYDER ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, NOT to me.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:33:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: GINA SNYDER
To: bmonty@yorku.ca
Subject: iso14000-digest V2 #32 -Reply
Replying to:
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:49:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Montgomery
Subject: EMS and government operations
Fellow posters,
I'm undertaking research in the field of EMS implementation in
government. My particular focus is on the Candian federal government
and the actions that it is undertaking. In Canada 28 departments have
tabled Sustaianable Development Strategies and many of those
departments are pursing ISO 14000 EMS in order to implement these
strategies in their daily operations.
However as background research I am curious to know what
"steps", plans or legislation other governments have undertaken
regarding EMS implementation in order to "green" their department's
operations.
In my research so far I have come across references to the US
EPA Code of Environmental Management Principles, but have been
unable to find the Code or the extent of its application.
Any information provided on this topic would be most helpful.
Brian Montgomery
bmonty@yorku.ca
REPLY:
The CEMP can be found in the Federal Register Vol. 61, No. 201,
Wednesday October 16, 1996, P. 54062
You should contact the federal facilities coordinator for your EPA region
to begin tracking information on the extent of its implementation.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 11:26:32 -0700
From: "Bert P. Krages"
Subject: Re: Priorities ISO14001: pollution prevention
ISO 14001 defines prevention of pollution to include "use of processes . .
. that avoid, reduce, or control pollution . . . which may include . . .
treatment . . .." This definition is contrary to how the term "pollution
prevention" is normally used (meaning to eliminate pollution prior to the
need for treatment) but clearly allows organizations to treat emissions,
effluents, and other releases and remain in compliance with the provisions
of ISO 14000.
At 06:13 PM 5/7/98 +0200, Guus Gabriëlse wrote:
>
>The standard does require that an organization makes a commitment to the
>prevention of pollution. Application of end of pipe technology can not
>always be considered as an act of pollution prevention. In most cases
>"clean up technology" results in a tranfer of impurities from one
>environmental compartment into another, thus creating a problem in that
>other compartment.
>
>Wastewater treatment systems do purify the water, but create "solid"
>wastematerial that need to be disposed of.
>
>In my opinion, the application of such a technique is therefore in
>contradiction with the standard requirement of pollution prevention. A
>certified or a would-be certified company could only then make use of such
>technology when it can prove that measures at the source are not possible
>within the financial abilities of that company.
>
>Guus Gabriëlse
>
>
>
Bert P. Krages II
Environmental Law and Mediation
900 S.W. Fifth Avenue, Suite 1900
Portland, Oregon 97204
Law:
Mediation:
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: submission from [Carine Van der Heyde ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, NOT to me.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:30:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Carine Van der Heyde
To: iso14000@quality.org
Subject: ISO14000 and lending
Hello,
Someone told me that
Some banks offer discounts on interest rates for investment related
borrowing to companies that are environmental friendly (can be proven
with an ISO 14000 certificate). Is that correct?? Can someone give me
examples ????
For some banks it's even obligatory to provide an ISO 14000
certificate with the investment file to get a loan. True?
Carine Van der Heyde
Deloitte & Touche
Management Solutions
Brussels
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 16:02:10 -0400
From: rpojasek@sprynet.com
Subject: Conference on Quality Improvement Tools
Many ISO 14001 programs use quality tools in their programs. Process mapping
is used to locate all the aspects and document the processes. Pareto analysis
can be used to determine significant environmental aspects. Implementation and
control uses root cause analysis. Other tools are used to derive management
alternatives, select alternatives, and provide for action planning. Attendees
will divide into teams and use varying combinations of the tools to work on
environmental issues associated with the hotel/conference center and a video
case. Plenary sessions will discuss the tools and derive information for the
revision of the EPA Facility Pollution Prevention Manual. ISO implications of
this work are very important. The Engineering Foundation (not-for-profit
organization representing the five major engineering societies) is holding a
conference to discuss these tools in environment, health and safety programs on
August 17-21, 1998 in Crested Butte, Colorado. They have a web site with
registration materials and information on how to join a preconference list
server. Some of the technical contents of the meeting are currently being
updated to reflect changes in the meeting as shown above.
http://www.engfnd.org/7be.html
The Engineering Foundation is accepting registration requests at this time.
Robert B. Pojasek, Ph.D.
Conference Chair
rpojasek@sprynet.com
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/courses/eh270cd
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 16:03:14 -0400
From: "Neil G. Vander Linden"
Subject: Priorities ISO14001: pollution prevention -Reply
The following statement by submitted by Guus Gabrielse appears to misconstrue the intent of the standard. In order to better understand what the standard requires, one must look at the definition for "prevention of pollution".
Definition 3.13 on page 2 of the standard says
prevention of pollution
use of processes, practices, materials or products that avoid, reduce or control pollution, which may include recycling, treatment, process changes, control mechanisms, efficient use of resources and material substitution.
This is a much broader interpretation which gives the company a wide range of ways to satisfy the requirement relating to " including a commitment to continual improvement and prevention of pollution"
Neil Vander Linden
ngvande@westvaco.com
The standard does require that an organization makes a commitment to the
prevention of pollution. Application of end of pipe technology can not
always be considered as an act of pollution prevention. In most cases
"clean up technology" results in a transfer of impurities from one
environmental compartment into another, thus creating a problem in that
other compartment.
Wastewater treatment systems do purify the water, but create "solid"
waste material that need to be disposed of.
In my opinion, the application of such a technique is therefore in
contradiction with the standard requirement of pollution prevention. A
certified or a would-be certified company could only then make use of such
technology when it can prove that measures at the source are not possible
within the financial abilities of that company.
Guus Gabriëlse
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:15:11 -0400
From: HY BRAVERMAN
Subject: Re: Priorities ISO14001: pollution prevention
Pollution Prevention:
Yes, but! You need to know all environmental data.
Design Process 101: Begin with end in mind!
A recent survey found that, EH&S paperwork consumes 25% of an EH&S
professioanls time, and that only 20% of it is structured, how secure
does it make an EH&S person feel that the remaining 80% is accurate, not
to mention current?
And depending upon the time, energy and money, isn't it important that
environmental data be uniform and timely? Environmental data is
sprouting all over the enterprise, wouldn't it be productive and
efficient to harvest it?
I advocate EnviroInformatics, it's the integration of Information
Management Technology and Environmental Management processes. You know
you need an environmental management information assessment if you don't
know the sources, destinations, values, volumes, amounts, sizes,
energies and the process costs of all environmental activity. If you
don't have that data, how will you achieve your goals?
Hy Braverman
BRAVERMAN STRATEGIES
EnviroInformatics consulting
email: braveman@ziplink.net
Bert P. Krages wrote:
>
> ISO 14001 defines prevention of pollution to include "use of processes . .
> . that avoid, reduce, or control pollution . . . which may include . . .
> treatment . . .." This definition is contrary to how the term "pollution
> prevention" is normally used (meaning to eliminate pollution prior to the
> need for treatment) but clearly allows organizations to treat emissions,
> effluents, and other releases and remain in compliance with the provisions
> of ISO 14000.
>
Guus Gabriëlse wrote:
> >
> >The standard does require that an organization makes a commitment to the
> >prevention of pollution. Application of end of pipe technology can not
> >always be considered as an act of pollution prevention. In most cases
> >"clean up technology" results in a tranfer of impurities from one
> >environmental compartment into another, thus creating a problem in that
> >other compartment.
> >
> >Wastewater treatment systems do purify the water, but create "solid"
> >wastematerial that need to be disposed of.
> >
> >In my opinion, the application of such a technique is therefore in
> >contradiction with the standard requirement of pollution prevention. A
> >certified or a would-be certified company could only then make use of such
> >technology when it can prove that measures at the source are not possible
> >within the financial abilities of that company.
> >
> >Guus Gabriëlse
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:47:22 GMT-0300
From: "Macarena Ortega"
Subject: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
Dear Friends:
Can ISO 9000 and ISO 14000 be implemented together, at the same time?
Dou you think that is possible?
If it is possible, how is the better way to do it?
Thanks to all of you
********************************
Macarena Ortega
Marine Resources Department
Phone: +56-2-2400300
Fax: +56-2-2419389
e-mail: mortega@fundch.cl
********************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 11:16:33 -0400
From: Rick Gehrke
Subject: Re: Priorities ISO14001: pollution prevention
Guus Gabriëlse wrote:
> The standard does require that an organization makes a commitment to the
> prevention of pollution. Application of end of pipe technology can not
> always be considered as an act of pollution prevention. In most cases
> "clean up technology" results in a tranfer of impurities from one
> environmental compartment into another, thus creating a problem in that
> other compartment.
>
> Wastewater treatment systems do purify the water, but create "solid"
> wastematerial that need to be disposed of.
>
> In my opinion, the application of such a technique is therefore in
> contradiction with the standard requirement of pollution prevention. A
> certified or a would-be certified company could only then make use of such
> technology when it can prove that measures at the source are not possible
> within the financial abilities of that company.
>
A reduction in pollution is prevention of pollution. Removal of contaminants
from water is such a situation. Most end-of-the-pipe controls are aimed at
changing pollution from one form to another, e.g. an electrostatic
precipitator changing an airborne contaminant to a solid waste. A wet
scrubber changes airborne contaminants from air emissions to liquid wastes and
slurries, which are much more easily controlled. While these processes still
result in some form of pollution, they are converting pollutants to more
controllable, less harmful forms. This results in prevention of pollution
which would otherwise have been released, and is consistent with the
environmental policy and objective and target requirements of ISO 14001.
- --
Rick Gehrke
AWM ISO 14000 Registration Services
http://www.awm.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: submission from ["jlsprof-1" ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, NOT to me.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:40:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "jlsprof-1"
To: "ISO 14000 List"
Subject: Prevention of Pollution
The ISO 14001 standard intentionally uses the term "prevention of
pollution" as opposed to "pollution prevention." This is because it's
intended to include treatment of pollution, or end of pipe solutions, as
well as purely pollution prevention solutions. So, the answer is Yes, end
of pipe solutions are okay (although not the most desirable) under ISO
14001.
This may change in future rewrites; not everyone agrees that it should be
this way. Certainly, in countries like mine, the United States, pollution
prevention is the order of the day. But in some of the developing nations,
it may be more appropriate to start with prevention of pollution. The
standard allows this option.
James L. Smith
MEGA-TECH
jlsprof-1@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:40:19 -0400
From: HY BRAVERMAN
Subject: Prevention of Pollution
End of Pipe environmental approaches. The law of diminishing returns.
It lets goods producing systems also produce waste and they have to pay
extra to get rid of it. What a system!
If companies measured the costs of producing wastes, they come to the
conclusion that they need a better way. They would need to invest in
state of the art, efficient technologies. Rewarding pollution
preventing technology companies with more revenues and profits, not end
of pipe and command and control technology firms.
The more you know about how you make things and how much goes up the
smoke stack or down the drain pipe, the better you will be at
eliminating that waste process.
Measure, count, and sum environmental data. Turn it into useful
information and gain knowledge to make the changes for the better. Then
start all over again to get better results.
H. Braverman
email: braveman@ziplink.net
> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:40:24 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "jlsprof-1"
> To: "ISO 14000 List"
> Subject: Prevention of Pollution
>
> The ISO 14001 standard intentionally uses the term "prevention of
> pollution" as opposed to "pollution prevention." This is because it's
> intended to include treatment of pollution, or end of pipe solutions, as
> well as purely pollution prevention solutions. So, the answer is Yes, end
> of pipe solutions are okay (although not the most desirable) under ISO
> 14001.
> This may change in future rewrites; not everyone agrees that it should be
> this way. Certainly, in countries like mine, the United States, pollution
> prevention is the order of the day. But in some of the developing nations,
> it may be more appropriate to start with prevention of pollution. The
> standard allows this option.
> James L. Smith
> MEGA-TECH
> jlsprof-1@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 May 98 17:54:05 -0000
From: richard@frey.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
Yes, but why would you want to?
Best wishes,
Richard Frey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:15:34 +0200
From: "Robert Turner"
Subject: Re: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
>Yes, but why would you want to?
>
>Best wishes,
>
>
>Richard Frey
>
Seems an odd comment. I'm working on an ISO 9002 / ISO 14001 combination
now. The customer wants to have both, as he wants quality and environmental
affairs to be properly managed. These two standards have been written to
have a similar structure, so that a number of items (e.g. document
management) are basically the same. In such circumstances it would be
inefficient not to combine the systems: otherwise everything would have to
be duplicated.
In some sectors the number of parallel management systems can become large:
I talked with one company which had 5 audited systems (I'm not sure what
they all were, but included quality, safety, HACCP, ....). Under such
circumstances you must integrate them or go mad.
Bob Turner
************************************************************
Robert Turner, Zigomar Belgium
Office tel +32 16 20 07 87 fax +32 16 20 76 67
e-mail office@zigomar.com
Home tel/fax +32 3 440 25 81
e-mail rgt@glo.be
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:00:55 -0400
From: HY BRAVERMAN
Subject: Re: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
Bob Turner:
A sugestion:
In order to avoid parallel data problems, I seems clear to me that a
unified information exchange systems should be used. Have you considered
an environmental/information architecture? Are there information
professionals in your firm and/or your customers that can provide help?
You should map in the data requirements now, when it's cost will be
less. If the information flow is overlooked at the start of a project,
the cost will increase. Data currency, data ageing and data uniformity
are issues that need be considered. You will need data relevancy to make
progress.
There should be local IT/EMS service companies to help you. I doubt that
any of the computer vendors will be able to help you.
Good Luck
Hy Braverman
email: braveman@ziplink.net
> I'm working on an ISO 9002 / ISO 14001 combination
> now. The customer wants to have both, as he wants quality and environmental
> affairs to be properly managed. These two standards have been written to
> have a similar structure, so that a number of items (e.g. document
> management) are basically the same. In such circumstances it would be
> inefficient not to combine the systems: otherwise everything would have to
> be duplicated.
>
> In some sectors the number of parallel management systems can become large:
> I talked with one company which had 5 audited systems (I'm not sure what
> they all were, but included quality, safety, HACCP, ....). Under such
> circumstances you must integrate them or go mad.
>
> Bob Turner
>
> ************************************************************
> Robert Turner, Zigomar Belgium
>
> Office tel +32 16 20 07 87 fax +32 16 20 76 67
> e-mail office@zigomar.com
>
> Home tel/fax +32 3 440 25 81
> e-mail rgt@glo.be
> ************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 20:58:17 +0200
From: "Robert Turner"
Subject: Re: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
I'm afraid I'm a bit confused here. When you say "data" are you referring
to documents (ISO 14001 section 4.3.5) or records (4.4.3)? In my posting I
was mainly referring to integration of documentation, but I think you're
talking about records.
I should add that the customer with whom I'm currently working is a fairly
small company (about 20 people) so that an extensive IT solution isn't
really appropriate.
Bob Turner.
>In order to avoid parallel data problems, I seems clear to me that a
>unified information exchange systems should be used. Have you considered
>an environmental/information architecture? Are there information
>professionals in your firm and/or your customers that can provide help?
>
>You should map in the data requirements now, when it's cost will be
>less. If the information flow is overlooked at the start of a project,
>the cost will increase. Data currency, data ageing and data uniformity
>are issues that need be considered. You will need data relevancy to make
>progress.
>
************************************************************
Robert Turner, Zigomar Belgium
Office tel +32 16 20 07 87 fax +32 16 20 76 67
e-mail office@zigomar.com
Home tel/fax +32 3 440 25 81
e-mail rgt@glo.be
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:11:45 -0400
From: Diana Baldi
Subject: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
Marcarena,
Yes, lots of companies are implementing both 9001 and 14001 as an
integrated system. For most of these companies, one standard is on a
faster "track" than the other simply due to limited resources internally to
avoid trying to do everything at once.
To complete the process while maintaining your sanity, the core leaders
must understand both standards VERY well and be able to visualize the end
"product" (the integrated management system). To implement both systems at
the same time will not be easy unless the culture of the company is already
quite progressive. For many companies they have to get over the culture
shock of document control, internal auditing, corrective action, and having
documented procedures--instead of "just doing the job".
I haven't seem much published about implementing both systems at the same
time--at least much that is actually helpful to folks like yourself. Some
facilitation or periodic feedback from an experienced consultant
(experienced in both 9001 and 14001) may be very helpful--just to help the
core team on track.
Regards,
Diana Baldi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:55:43 GMT
From: "L.J.Warrick"
Subject: The way forward with 14000
Dear all,
I have recently returned from abroad, after spending a year away from
the environmental management field. I am very interested in carrying
on my research in environmental management systems. My specific
interest lay within the area of environmental aspects and impacts,
using a risk based approach.
Since my return it seems to me that this area of EMS has quitened
down, is this because everyone is happy with this area or is there
still a requirement for more guidance from ISO?. What is the current
issues that are causing concern with 14000 and are there any areas in
particular that may need more research?.
I welcome your comments.
Linda Warrick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 98 10:12:52 -0500
From: aives@pccii.com
Subject: iso 14000 and ships
To the list,
As a new subscriber, please excuse if this topic has already been covered
extensively.
I am searching for information about how ISO 14000 can be applied to military
ships such as those of the US Navy. Has this issue been discussed? J. Cascio's
"The ISO 14000 Handbook" does not speak to this issue, I believe.
Thank you in advance for the assistance.
Regards,
Austin Ives
Project Analyst
PCCI, Inc. Marine and Envirnomental Engineering
aives@pccii.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:18:50 -0500
From: Phil Rooney
Subject: Re: submission from ["jlsprof-1" ] (fwd)
Bill Casti (System Admin) wrote:
>
> NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
> "Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, NOT to me.
>
> =============================================================================
> Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
> Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
> =============================================================================
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:40:24 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "jlsprof-1"
> To: "ISO 14000 List"
> Subject: Prevention of Pollution
>
> The ISO 14001 standard intentionally uses the term "prevention of
> pollution" as opposed to "pollution prevention." This is because it's
> intended to include treatment of pollution, or end of pipe solutions, as
> well as purely pollution prevention solutions. So, the answer is Yes, end
> of pipe solutions are okay (although not the most desirable) under ISO
> 14001.
> This may change in future rewrites; not everyone agrees that it should be
> this way. Certainly, in countries like mine, the United States, pollution
> prevention is the order of the day. But in some of the developing nations,
> it may be more appropriate to start with prevention of pollution. The
> standard allows this option.
> James L. Smith
> MEGA-TECH
> jlsprof-1@erols.com
FYI: speaking as one who holds a Ph.D. in English, let me assure you all
that "prevention of pollution" and "pollution prevention" mean EXACTLY
the same thing. "Reducing pollution" and "pollution prevention" are
different. "Controlling pollution" and "pollution prevention" are
different. The two phrases used in the above message are identical in
meaning even though they differ in grammatical construction.
Phil Rooney, Ph.D.
Community Health Educator II
LLCHD
Lincoln, NE 68510
(402) 441-8644
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:36:25 -0600
From: "Egan, Pam"
Subject: RE: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
Macarena Ortega wrote:
Dear Friends:
Can ISO 9000 and ISO 14000 be implemented together, at the same time?
Dou you think that is possible?
If it is possible, how is the better way to do it?
Thanks to all of you
Richard Frey wrote:
> Yes, but why would you want to?
>
> Best wishes,
> Richard Frey
>
>
There are so many common elements between the two standards that
implementing them together makes sense and may save you from having a
documentation nightmare. Two standards in one management system sounds
streamline to me. When examining the activities, products and services
of your organization, both quality and environmental impact issues can
be identified and dealt with at the same time. Add Health & Safety
issues to that examination and your management system, at a minimum,
will contain programs that deal with these areas that have gained such a
high profile in the business arena today.
Process mapping is a valuable tool for identifying quality,
environmental, and health and safety issues that are triggered by an
organizations activities. Once those are identified, then start the
documentation required by the standards. You need to understand what
you are doing before you can document your EMS or QMS. There is a
member of this Discussion Group, Robert Pojasek (I hope you don't mind
this cameo, Bob, and invite you to chime in here), who has a great deal
to say in support of process mapping.
Our organization has had it's ISO 9000 registration for almost two years
and we are now seeking ISO 14000 registration. We may be looking at
rewriting some of our 9000 documentation to integrate 14000. Had we
known we would be seeking 14000 registration, we could have saved
ourselves a lot of time and headache by developing a dual system.
Pamela Egan
pegan@wstf.nasa.gov
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:09:04 -0400
From: "Kowalczyk Daniel"
Subject: Defense Organizations and ISO 14000
It is with great interest that I have been following the recent messages
regarding ISO 14000 implementation by governmental agencies. I am
interested in obtaining information with respect to how Defense
organizations have chosen to address the global movement towards ISO
14000 certification.
It has recently been brought to my attention that the Taiwanese Air
Force is ISO 14000 certified. Can anyone assist me in obtaining more
information pertaining to the Taiwanese Air Force certification, and how
other Defense organizations are addressing ISO 14000? Any help is
greatly appreciated.
Respectfully,
Dan Kowalczyk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:38:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: Submission from [martin charter <101336.3560@compuserve.com>] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, NOT to me.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 05:09:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: martin charter <101336.3560@compuserve.com>
Subject: new sustainability websites
Dear colleagues--please take a look at the two fully updated websites
below--please excuse any cross-postings:
The Centre for Sustainable Design (www.cfsd.org.uk)
* managing eco-design
* sustainable product development and design
* design aspects of environmental communications
* journal of sustainable product design
Epsilon (www.epsilon-ltd.co.uk)
* Includes free downloadable 'business and environment' information
Please feel free to forward this to any lists or contacts
Cheers--Martin Charter
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 98 19:02:58 -0000
From: richard@frey.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: ISO 9000 and ISO 14000
Perhaps I could clarify a little.
Q Is using ISO 9000 as a foundation for ISO 14001 a good idea?
A Absolutely. If suitable (a major caveat), it saves a lot of work and
makes perfect sense.
Q Is it a good idea to run two major projects simultaneously on two
different fronts.
A Not unless you have to.
Q Should we think now about the 'hooks' in our quality system procedures
for adding environmental management later?
A Yes, but it's no big deal to do that later if the ISO 9000
implementation is reasonably efficient. If you are using an 80s style
for your ISO 9000 implementation, it will take more effort but that part
is still no big deal.
Best wishes,
Richard Frey
Data currency, data ageing and data uniformity for the masses.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:09:27 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: Re: iso 14000 and ships
aives@pccii.com wrotes:
> To the list,
>
> As a new subscriber, please excuse if this topic has already been covered
> extensively.
>
> I am searching for information about how ISO 14000 can be applied to military
> ships such as those of the US Navy. Has this issue been discussed? J. Cascio's
> "The ISO 14000 Handbook" does not speak to this issue, I believe.
>
> Thank you in advance for the assistance.
> Regards,
>
> Austin Ives
> Project Analyst
> PCCI, Inc. Marine and Envirnomental Engineering
> aives@pccii.com
In my opinion the application of the ISO 14001 to the U.S. Navy ships is identical
to the applicattion of ISO 9000 to any other ship.You can take the ISM Code/ISO
9002 from the ABS in order to see how is the control of the pollution in the
management of a ship. The concept of the ISM Code has the same principles of ISO
14001, but with the restriction to only ships.
As an up to date information you can take information from the Quality Digest (March
1998) at http://www.qualitydigest.com/. In the page 30 there is an article: U.S.
COAST GUARD UNIT REGISTERS TO ISO 9002. Contact the Commander Office in order to
share experiences.
I think that a ship, no matter if a merchant or a warship, is a system or an
organization, with its mission, vision, values, etc.
Reinaldo Ramirez
Commander,
Venezuelan Navy (Retired).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:28:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: re: ISO21000 (fwd)
NOTE: Please DON'T send any more messages to the list, wherein the list
address is one of multiple lists! The system rejects messages when the
header is too long, because that's a common denominator of SPAM! If you
must cc: to multiple addresses, please put all except ONE of them in the
bcc: field, so they won't show up and be so annoying.
As usual, if you have a response to make to this forwarded message, do it
to the list and/or to "stephen@alaveddy.demon.co.uk", not to me.
Thanks.
Bill
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:16:54 -0400 (EDT)
To: iso14000@quality.org
From: "Stephen AT Pathmarajah"
Subject: Re: ISO 21000
Am I stuppied?
What is this ISO21000?
Steve
In message <3556AA04.F2752347@braunschweig.netsurf.de>, Marc-Andree Wolf
writes
>Please excuse cross-postings
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>entering the discussion about the proposed "ISO 21000", I am looking for more
>information. I would appreciate your help in providing further points of view on
>the outline of this proposed standard and am looking for contacts to ISO working
>groups and other expert groups dealing with that topic. Please send any
>information (also) to:
>marc-a.wolf@bigfoot.com !
>
>
>Thank you very much,
>
>Marc-Andree Wolf
>
>_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:48:34 -0400
From: Michael Snider
Subject: ISO's 9000 and 14000
Sometimes its good to integrate systems in order to avoid unbalancing your improvement/compliance efforts. In other words, any management system, whether quality, environment, safety, etc., will focus attention on its particular topic. The problem: that
particular area may not be the greatest threat to the health of the business. The extent to which you can integrate your systems is the extent to which you can balance your response to risk.
Michael Snider
e-mail: sniderm@wv.doe.gov
Tel: 716-942-2024
Fax: 716-942-2000
West Valley Nuclear Services
MS-AOC-16
10282 Rock Springs Road
West Valley, NY 14171-0191
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 08:39:38 -0600
From: "Sorenson, Jeff/COS"
Subject: RE: Defense Organizations and ISO 14000
Having just retired from the U.S. Air Force, I can speak to the movement
within the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD). As with most large
bureaucracies, the DoD is studying ISO 14000 to death. It has recently
begun a two year study using volunteer installations from each of the
branches (Air Force, Army, and Navy.) The study is intended to show the
benefits and costs associated with implementing ISO at a military
installation. Time will tell.
Jeff
Jeffrey S. Sorenson
CH2M HILL, Colorado Springs
(719) 633-8805
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kowalczyk Daniel [SMTP:kowalczyk_daniel@bah.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 10:09 AM
> To: iso14000@quality.org
> Subject: Defense Organizations and ISO 14000
>
> It is with great interest that I have been following the recent
> messages
> regarding ISO 14000 implementation by governmental agencies. I am
> interested in obtaining information with respect to how Defense
> organizations have chosen to address the global movement towards ISO
> 14000 certification.
>
> It has recently been brought to my attention that the Taiwanese Air
> Force is ISO 14000 certified. Can anyone assist me in obtaining more
> information pertaining to the Taiwanese Air Force certification, and
> how
> other Defense organizations are addressing ISO 14000? Any help is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Dan Kowalczyk
------------------------------
End of iso14000-digest V2 #33
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